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Civil Justice
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:26:00 -
[1]
I did an preliminary test (very short test) and I find that the velocity increase is not nearly enough for extreme distances unlike guns that I can hit with over 200 kms away. Was testing the Cruise missiles at only 60 km and did not notice an huge increase in speed. I did how ever notice that the range of these weapons where horrible and the damage almost as worst.
Note: The test was done on another Battle ship.
With the current speed of the missiles at long ranges I am sure that you could still warp away before the missiles hit you. With current skills available you donÆt even have to do that because you know he does not have the range to hit you with any missiles at sniper range.
(Basic skills with missiles should be on par with their counterparts for range, and with advanced skills on par with the weapons that correspond to that level. Range/Damage)
Ok if we going to make missiles to be guns (but just look like missiles) then will need the same benefits as guns. That includes range, speed and damage. [ Critical hits ]
Hell why donÆt you just make them guns .. Pick one , whether it be lasers or projectiles it would still be better then what he have here. You can still call them missiles :)
ThatÆs the idea make them 1400 howitzers but they look like missiles :)
Here is some questions to C.C.P .
- With advanced missiles skills coming out so late in the game compared to guns.
Missiles users are at an great disadvantage with playing catch up?
- What does ccp plan on doing for people that only fly missile boats for now and need to make an income. The current way that these missiles work its an strong chance that people will not be able to fly there ships for an very long time.
- People that use gun ships where using missiles to be able to fight npcs and players frigÆs what happens to them?
- Guns on all ships donÆt have an restriction on what charge you can use. It is very unfair that the siege missile launcher can only fire Torps. That would be something like Tachyon (425 / 1400 howitzers) not being able to use an certain charge type?
- Even guns (user with minimal skills) seem to have better range & velocity then people that use missiles with this new vu.
- Guns with very advanced skills can hit from over 200 km away with out the assistance of others. My charter can do this.
-If you make missiles to be able to hit bad or hit for zero damage then yo have to make them have critical shots too.
Well IÆll be doing further testing if I can stomach it. Was so disappointed with the current state of it I had to log off the test server.
If this is the finish product I will be blowing up my 3 ravens and sticking with the apoc for now with maybe replacing them ravens with tempest or megathrons :(
PS I do admit that the missiles needed to be changed. Its nice that they have increased the velocity of them (maybe not enough ) but they should have left the flight times alone.
"Great corporations are not built by great leaders. They are built by great members." |
Civil Justice
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Posted - 2005.05.06 06:20:00 -
[2]
some one mentioned that Tachyon beams using multi's dont hit an Raven up close for good damage while cruise missles do.
I test alot of things on my other charters. I hit my other Raven with Tachyon for 350 and above damage :) not counting some sweet hits like this :)
I can fly every BS in game and can use every weapon.
With 26 million sp (6.7 million Gunnery)and going up every day Amarr BS 5 Cal BS 5 minitar 4 Gal 3
2005.04.04 09:32:01 combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly
strikes
Crypt Keeper [AUS C], wrecking for 1193.3 damage.
2005.03.16 10:26:08 combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly
strikes Crypt
Keeper [AUS C], wrecking for 637.7 damage.
2005.03.19 06:47:57 combat Your Mega Pulse Laser I perfectly strikes
Crypt
Keeper [AUS C], wrecking for 545.9 damage.
2005.04.16 05:24:28 combat Your Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I places an excellent
hit on Guristas Terrorist, inflicting 140.5 damage.
Be honest I never though of the Raven as an good pvp ship unless it was sitting right on top of the gate or one of the best frig killers (support ship)
I did count on my Ravens being able to make me money to pvp with hunting rats. I hope they dont mess that up :(
"Great corporations are not built by great leaders. They are built by great members." |
Civil Justice
|
Posted - 2005.05.08 18:25:00 -
[3]
I would like to request that these skills come out on Market way before the update.
(At least 1 month before the new patch comes into effect)
These skills will take a lot of time to learn for an new to middle skill charter. Especially an charter that has very low perception and willpower attributes. But an Charter thatÆs main weapons and skills are geared towards missiles for the most part.
while my Flag ship charter looks like these skills will be extremely easy to learn my main charter I use for most wars and things (expendable charter) looks like it will take an few months maybe way longer to skill in these new skills just to make decent use of missiles again.
Crypt keeper charter Details: (Just the ones that pertain to these skills/ post)
9.859 million skills Points
Gunnery 605k
Missiles : 527,506
Perception 12
Willpower 12
*While I do acknowledge he needs major work in these areas. (Attributes)
** He should not go from an decent missel user to extremely bad one.
*** He has other training Priorities that include learning skills and gunnery.
Guided Missile Precision:
It took him in one skill over an hour to get to level 1, like 4 hours to get to lvl2. lvl3 19 hours?
Personally I think to be good in an particular skills required at least having level 4.
Also there is not just that one skill but rather 5 New skills just for missiles.
6 skills if you include the new painting system.
Im going to base it on his cruise missel training time to level 4 which would take him 8D 3h..
Hmm so he would need like 10 days times 5 or 50 days to get decent skills (not including Target painting).
Besides not hunting in his Raven for about two months if these skills donÆt come out before the missile changes. He would have no choice not to play the game or to use an Armageddon or Apocalypse.
Please keep in mind he can still take out 0.0 rats BS and all smaller ships in his Armageddon. With very little gunnery skills. Compared to my flag ship account with 6.7 million skill points and his measly 600,000. (Drone support for small ships and mega pulse ) and yes my mega pulse even at his measly levels did hit the smaller ships on rare shots, but for very good damage.
(Also keep in mind laserÆs donÆt cost anything in ammo to use so even if they miss who cares)
But there is plenty of drones on an Armageddon to handle that unlike an raven :(.
He did try his raven before this Armageddon on the above spawn type and he had very bad results. (Note did forget to bring his drones) but his CMÆs took like 20 minÆs to kill one ceptor :(
by the time he killed one another spawned.
So I decided that I had to self-destruct the raven or waste an undermined amount of time. Raven was warp scrambled by 3 ceptorÆs at time.
{Hate to go off topic here, but maybe some Raven hunters (npcs) might need to know how to keep an sustained forever tank with the new missile updates)
The only thing that kept that Raven alive was his sustained armor tanking.
NPC: Two large tech 2 armor repairs 181 recharge or less. Therm / Kentic harder.
All tech 2 cap recharges in mid slots. Can use 1 ab but then need to use an 20% in low slot to make up for it. Use the one that takes 10% from the shields.
(There might be skills here to make that set up work : Energy system operation & Energy management rank 5)
Variation: 1 tech 2 large armor repairer (large accommodation also good) 1 medium tech 2 armor repair 3 hardeners. Recharge does not have to be 181 or better.
** Note when hunting with friends (group) med coaxial remote armor repairs can be of an huge benefit helping the main BS tanking.
So in closing : Im requesting that the skillÆs be made available on the real server as soon as possible, this way the transition time for learning will be reduced. Causing way less stress among your missiles users.
Thanks
PS : would like to apologize again if I went to much off topic .
"Great corporations are not built by great leaders. They are built by great members." |
Civil Justice
|
Posted - 2005.05.09 01:46:00 -
[4]
TomB
Think we all need to know what is the goals of the new missiles system.
What was wrong with the old missile system?
( Everything that CCP did not like with it?)
Is it the PVP part of how misles worked that CCP did not like?
Is it also the PVE that CCP did not like?
If we can better understand what CCP is aiming for as goals we can better assist & let you know how we feel about the changes.
I would like to say that the work with making the Raven comparable to other BS with speed and Range is truly great (Well at least the concept). For an long time I never considered the Raven to have an equal footing with other battle ships when it came to most fleet engagements.
The last few empire wars truly showed most of our corp how ineffective the raven was with long range engagements.
So with Battle ship to Battle ship it seems ok, but im not sure that the changes done to the smaller ships are good.
"Great corporations are not built by great leaders. They are built by great members." |
Civil Justice
|
Posted - 2005.05.10 20:10:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Civil Justice on 10/05/2005 20:54:25
Suggestion for missile users and changes
**Edited**
Maybe the best approach thinking long term is not to change the missile system at all. Leave it the way it is. But make it an secondary weapon for all ships.
[Added] Was just thinking that the new missile method might go hand in hand with this kind of change :)
What I am suggesting is converting all missile boats to gun boats.
While this in itself might be extremely drastic, over the long term it might be the best course of action for the game.
For example the Raven would have all guns and maybe like the tempest be able to support 4 missile bays but no more (maybe Raven & tempest should be cut back too two?)
While the caldari will be some what back stepped in training :( I do think that in the long term it might be good for the game.
Note : Ship bonus would have to be changed..
ammo size (Cargo) would be reduced to acceptable levels as well as ammo cost's (misles are the most costly ammo in game)
* Note : misles are the most costly and the most volume for storage, its my opinion that it should do the most damage.
just an idea :)
"Great corporations are not built by great leaders. They are built by great members." |
Civil Justice
|
Posted - 2005.05.14 11:19:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: TomB
Launchers
No changes have been made to old skills, these are new skills that have been listed as possible advancement candidates for the missile changes:
Missile Navigation - Increased missile velocity
Missile Bombardment - Increased missile fly time duration
Guided Missile Precision - Signature radius reduction factor on damage reduced for guided missiles
Warhead Upgrades - Increased missile damage
Target Navigation Prediction - The threshold where velocity of target starts decreasing damage is increased
T2 Specialization - For T2 junk only
Wonders if it would be possible to have an skill that would increase fire rate of missiles. Just like the gun skill rapid firing?
"Great corporations are not built by great leaders. They are built by great members." |
Civil Justice
|
Posted - 2005.05.15 16:08:00 -
[7]
I know you put in a lot of work to try and balance the ships but would like to make an few suggestions that will further balance them.
Ammo size / Ammo cost: (Balanced not only in firepower but in ecomeny too)
Ammo cost: Missiles are still the most expensive ammo in the game, If they will attack like turrets (Damage wise) is there any way that ccp can get them to be priced comparable to projectile ammo? (Further changing the amount of minerals needed to make an batch- just an little change in this area should do it)
Do want to acknowledged that missiles have already been drastically reduced in price, but yet they are still the highest ammo.
Ammo size: Since it will take a lot of Missiles to do the job (if it can do that particular job) it would be great to have that ammo size reduced some what.
Thanks
"Great corporations are not built by great leaders. They are built by great members." |
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